perm filename DEC.MSG[LET,JMC] blob
sn#139933 filedate 1975-01-02 generic text, type T, neo UTF8
∂02-JAN-75 0331 ESS,JMC
It looks like \ is not parsed as a delimiter in declarations.
␈ CC: RWW
∂02-JAN-75 0246 ESS,JMC
A new draft of the FORMAL REASONING part of the ARPA proposal is in your
box. Please go over it before the meeting.
␈ CC: @MTC.GRP:jmc,rww,mg,bg,ref,dbx,ajt,RDA,FWH
∂01-JAN-75 2214 ESS,JMC
By the way, do you have an opinion of actors?
␈ CC: tw
∂01-JAN-75 2210 ESS,JMC
If you want to check out the ⊗ and ⊗⊗ macros that you are going to add
to HEAD, you can use reason.pro[cur,jmc] that refers to them. By the
way, it is now in semifinal form, i.e. we will meet on it Thursday 2pm
but if no changes are recommended, it is what you will get. This will
free me to look over what others have done and any draft of an introduction
that you may have. Who are the delinquents now?
␈ CC: les
∂01-JAN-75 2202 ESS,JMC
Carl:
I just noticed the paper of you and Irene, and perhaps it will
resolve some of my questions.
␈ CC: hewitt%AI;tw
∂01-JAN-75 2146 ESS,JMC
I have scanned "Towards a Programming Apprentice" and may read it some more,
but here are some preliminary comments, since I may not have time to read
more:
1. It is much clearer than anything I have read of yours before.
2. There is still too much emphasis on saying how PLASMA is
better than other things, especially in the beginning. You should really
give a pretty full exposition of what you propose before the comparisons.
3. The examples of actual programs are still too few and do
not exhibit enough of the claimed examples of PLASMA. In my scan, I found
the recursive function examples which came to about the same thing as
the corresponding LISP programs, because the pattern matching in these
particular examples was trivial, but I didn't find an example of a substantial
collection of actors. In particular, I am still puzzled about how an actor
distinguishes a message it receives asking for its reply from one that it
receives as a reply. Perhaps my mental model of PLASMA as a kind of
parallel system with the different actors operating in parallel is faulty.
I think a seminar would be a good idea, but I am not doing any
organizing I can help now. Perhaps, Terry would like to organize one.
␈ CC: hewitt%AI;tw
∂01-JAN-75 2138 ESS,JMC
DECLARE OPCONST FOO:Int⊗Int→Int \L←850 R←800;
which is essentially the example given on p. 16 of the manual
doesn't work. It gets a sequence of complaints starting \is already
declared syntype OPCONST.
␈ CC: rww
∂01-JAN-75 1959 ESS,JMC
reason.pro[cur,jmc] has been revised again, supposedly to take into account
all interests. Check also what is says about you in the last section.
Remember that we are meeting today at 2pm for a final go around. Besides
ARPA proposal aside, this represents my idea of the goals of the group.
$
␈ CC: @MTC.GRP[ESS,JMC]:jmc,rww,mg,bg,ref,dwp,dbx,ajt,RDA,FWH
∂01-JAN-75 0142 ESS,JMC AT TTY15 0142
GOSPER WANTS YOU TO CALL HIM HERE 321-7580.
␈ CC: JBR
∂31-DEC-74 1358 ESS,JMC AT TTY15 1358
I will be 20 minutes late.
␈ CC: rww
∂31-DEC-74 0306 ESS,JMC
The draft manual needs a lot of simple proof-reading.
␈ CC: ajt;rww
∂31-DEC-74 0303 ESS,JMC
The examples of infix declarations given in the manual don't work.
Prefix declarations don't work either.
␈ CC: RWW
∂31-DEC-74 0037 ESS,JMC
Please try to put the goals of the work you advocate in your note in the
form and about the length of the goals included in reason.pro. Don't insert
them in the file; I'll do that when I have them the way I want them. There
will be another section of general discussion in which some of the longer
descriptions of research areas will be appropriate.
␈ CC: AJT
∂30-DEC-74 1531 ESS,JMC
There would indeed be little motivation for people who can use AI lab
facilities, and my target audience is people who can't. By the way,
I am having a New Year's eve party, and the Lab is having an End of the
World Party on January 4.
␈ CC: dek
∂30-DEC-74 0405 ESS,JMC
See aiorg.pln[cur,jmc]
␈ CC: raphael%SRI-AI
∂30-DEC-74 0302 ESS,JMC
Network mail addressed to mccarthy@su-ai will reach me now, so you can
forget about jmc if you like although that will also work.
␈ CC: licklider%ISI;fields%ISI
∂30-DEC-74 0254 ESS,JMC
Why do you so often leave a buggy version on the system. I try R FOL,
and get ill mem ref immediately.
␈ CC: RWW
∂30-DEC-74 0223 ESS,JMC
Draft proposal is reason.pro[cur,jmc]. There will be more.
␈ CC: @MTC.GRP[ESS,JMC]:jmc,rww,mg,bg,ref,dwp,dbx,ajt,RDA,FWH
∂30-DEC-74 0126 ESS,JMC
MTC Group meeting Tuesday 2pm to consider draft of ARPA proposal.
␈ CC: @MTC.GRP:jmc,rww,mg,bg,ref,dwp,dbx,ajt,RDA,FWH
∂29-DEC-74 0343 ESS,JMC
I tried to send a message from a tenex site to a fil`αPhere by asking
to send the message to :foo. It claimed there was no user called foo.
It should have accepted the message. My desire for this is not quite
idle; I want people to send certain comment messages to files which
can be read by other people.
␈ CC: bh
∂29-DEC-74 0340 ESS,JMC
foo
␈ CC: :FOO.FOO
∂29-DEC-74 0339 ESS,JMC
foo
␈ CC: :FOO
∂29-DEC-74 0338 ESS,JMC
foo
␈ CC: :FOO
∂29-DEC-74 0337 ESS,JMC
foo
␈ CC: :FOO
∂29-DEC-74 0333 ESS,JMC
foo
␈ CC: :FOO
∂28-DEC-74 2221 ESS,JMC
I4-TENEXA and AMES-67 are both listed by HOST as having short name AMES.
␈ CC: bh
∂27-DEC-74 1544 ESS,JMC
Glad you are willing to help with the Bay Area Home Terminal Club.
The next major step is to make up a mailing list and mail the prospectus.
Also free publicity from GRID, a bay area IEEE publication and Peninsula
Electronic News should be solicited.
␈ CC: sgk;:HOTER.OUT[PUB,JMC]
∂27-DEC-74 1432 ESS,JMC
Thanks for your notes on the BAHT Club and on the cryptic message. I got
a message from JBP satisfying my curiousity about what it was all about
and FTPed a file explaining the problem of putting feeble-minded computers
on the ARPA network.
I would like to learn more about your utility effort which, I gather,
is separate from the work you are doing for ARPA.
␈ CC: engelbart%SRI-ARC
∂27-DEC-74 1338 ESS,JMC
I sent the message to Marvin, because I thought you all might have useful
ideas, and because you might want to do likewise in the Boston area.
I will put you on the list for further announcements, and we will see if
anything comes of it.
Ah, but you probably got our general message by logging in here
rather than getting it by Marvin posting it. Perhaps you would want to
post it there.
␈ CC: tk%AI
∂27-DEC-74 0218 ESS,JMC
The file HOTER.BAY[PUB,JMC]:SU-AI is a preliminary version
of a prospectus for a club that would operate a time-sharing system
giving home terminal services to its members. Publicity including
bulletin board posting, personal reactions, and offers to help will
be welcome. The proposal to form the club now is a reaction to the
CACM article proposing a moratorium on Community Information Utilities
until the year 2000.
␈ CC: @HOTER.LST:coles%SRI-AI,engelbart%SRI-ARC,jew,taylor%MAXC,minsky%AI,dek
∂26-DEC-74 1533 ESS,JMC
Policy on data disks in afternoon has just become more flexible.
␈ CC: pdq
∂26-DEC-74 0240 ESS,JMC AT TTY15 0240
Yes, thanks; looking forward to seeing you, Happy New Year. Bye.
␈ CC: mal
∂26-DEC-74 0236 ESS,JMC AT TTY15 0236
How are things?
␈ CC: MAL
∂24-DEC-74 1205 ESS,JMC AT TTY15 1205
Dinner is targeted for 4:30pm, but come early if you like.
␈ CC: reg
∂23-DEC-74 0258 ESS,JMC
Sarah took Schroepel Fresno phone message declaring Monday noon arrival.
␈ CC: wd
∂21-DEC-74 1532 ESS,JMC
Please xgp filman.re1[let,jmc] onto the forms on your desk and fill them out.
␈ CC: paw
∂20-DEC-74 1327 ESS,JMC
I received the following message, and I haven't the slightest
idea what it is about and feel no incentive to read several pounds
of NLS documentation in order to find out. Perhaps it is intended
as a joke.
An attempt to send a message to JBP at OFFICE-1 was refusIf this was
the sender, probably he has a different name to TENEX than to NLS.
No system that demands such dedication to details of its internal
form can be viable.
John McCarthy
∂11-DEC-74 2154 network site OFF
JBP 11-DEC-74 18:04 31484 [NWG/RFC# 674]
Procedure Call Protocol Documents
Location: OFFICE-1 <GJOURNAL>31484.NLS;xnls
*****Note: [ ACTION ] *****
␈ CC: engelbart%SRI-ARC
∂20-DEC-74 1320 ESS,JMC
I received the following message, and I haven't the slightest
idea what it is about and feel no incentive to read several pounds
of NLS documentation in order to find out. Perhaps it is intended
as a joke.
∂11-DEC-74 2154 network site OFF
JBP 11-DEC-74 18:04 31484 [NWG/RFC# 674]
Procedure Call Protocol Documents
Location: OFFICE-1 <GJOURNAL>31484.NLS;xnls
*****Note: [ ACTION ] *****
␈ CC: fields%ISI;licklider%ISI;jbp%OFFICE-1
∂20-DEC-74 0059 ESS,JMC
Please send E. B. Kimbell at Associated Press a note from me saying that
the line 493-5505 is always on 10 characters per second.
␈ CC: paw
∂20-DEC-74 0045 ESS,JMC AT TTY15 0045
D'accord.
␈ CC: les
∂20-DEC-74 0041 ESS,JMC AT TTY15 0041
Well, legitimize the password that it has.
␈ CC: les
∂20-DEC-74 0038 ESS,JMC AT TTY15 0038
That can be [1,pcs].
␈ CC: les
∂20-DEC-74 0034 ESS,JMC AT TTY15 0034
No, it is [cs,lib].
␈ CC: les
∂20-DEC-74 0030 ESS,JMC
I have asked les to make a user lib for the cs library with password book.
␈ CC: wd
∂20-DEC-74 0028 ESS,JMC
Please make a user lib for the computer science library with password book.
␈ CC: les
∂19-DEC-74 2341 ESS,JMC
Please snd Suppes an ns manual.
␈ CC: me
∂19-DEC-74 2308 ESS,JMC
Please make Pat Suppes a user with initial pcs and passsword john.
␈ CC: les
∂18-DEC-74 2243 ESS,JMC
Not in the computer, Mike; in the conference room.
␈ CC: MG
∂18-DEC-74 1612 ESS,JMC AT TTY72 1612
I'll bring him.
␈ CC: pam
∂18-DEC-74 1610 ESS,JMC AT TTY72 1610
I have a visitor who might be interested in the Diplomacy project. Do you
have a minute to talk to him.
␈ CC: pam
∂18-DEC-74 1326 ESS,JMC
I guess I have too many other things to organize to push 3850 club.
␈ CC: fields%ISI
∂18-DEC-74 1323 ESS,JMC
I agree with what you say about a mini.
␈ CC: reg
∂17-DEC-74 2329 ESS,JMC
Dear Craig:
By all means, determine the cost of using an IBM 370 to put a 3850
on the network, but my guess is that it will be far more cost-effective
to put it on one of the existing PDP-10s, especially one that uses the 3330
already such as ours or CCAs. Ralph Gorin estimates that it could be
operating on our system two months after delivery of the hardware in a mode
where files on the 3330 would be in our file system and could be put in and
out of the system by FTP. Thus TENEX users would need no new software.
It is that easy, because the 3850 is designed to act as a virtual 3330.
Besides the 3850 itself, our 3830 controller would have to be converted from
a model 2 to a model 3. Gorin thinks we would also need another 3333 which
is the disk module with some additional control capability, we would probably
need to replace our present homemade channel by an SA-10 made by Systems
Concepts and might need one or two more 3330 modules to act as buffers, but
more likely we could get by with the four we have now since we could put
some of our own files on the 3850.
While we would like to do this, it is more important that the network
have a 3850 than that we operate it. An argument in favor of our operating it
or the M.I.T. AI Lab operating it is uptime. As you know, hacker maintained
machines have much less downtime than professionally maintained machines,
because the "fix it when it breaks" method leads to less downtime than
scheduling substantial amounts of time for maintenance.
The cost of the SA-10 mentioned above is $37K and the maximal additional
rental for IBM hardware mentioned above is about $3K per month, and so these
costs are minor compared to the cost of the $3850 itself. I forget the rental,
but the price of the 35 billion byte minimal version is about a million.
Unless Marrill has tied himself into a knot with his 3330, he ought to be
able to provide the same service almost as cheaply. I should say that I see
no additional personnel cost if we did it.
As to how much we would spend on the use of a network 3330, I can't
rightly say. Of course, the price for storage of information on it would
have to be lower than the price for adding more modules to our 3330 system,
even non-IBM modules. Maybe we could go back to model 1 3330s if there were
such a 3850 and reduce the number of drives. We now have 4 drives and they
come in pairs. Maybe we could even get rid of our user disk pack and have
users keep their data on the 3850 and go to only two 3330 drives. As an
extreme, we might even be able to go to an imitation 2314 instead of our
3330. This also depends on how fast data can be transferred over the network.
Maybe you need to do a market survey.
On the other hand, if there were a 3850 on the network at a really
low cost, say at not more than twice the rental of the bare 3850 to IBM,
we would be tempted to keep some really big files.
I don't want to go into our KL-10 plans and our arguments for
time-sharing research now.
␈ CC: reg;fields%ISI
∂17-DEC-74 1804 ESS,JMC AT TTY15 1804
Please phone me 321-7580, dataphone if 4971 doesnt work.
␈ CC: reg
∂17-DEC-74 1802 ESS,JMC AT TTY15 1802
what are your dinner plans .we (john and i)are having steak.
␈ CC: sgk
∂16-DEC-74 2202 ESS,JMC AT TTY72 2202
I will be home shortly, and we can go for lunch stuff.
␈ CC: elf
∂16-DEC-74 2155 ESS,JMC AT TTY72 2155
Sorry, Type control esc followed by L.
␈ CC: elf
∂16-DEC-74 2154 ESS,JMC AT TTY72 2154
Type control esc followed by c.
␈ CC: elf
∂16-DEC-74 2146 ESS,JMC
I will, of course, be delighted to see Peter and probably can find pics.
␈ CC: dek
∂16-DEC-74 2143 ESS,JMC
My telephone extension 4430 doesn't get a dial tone.
␈ CC: qib
∂16-DEC-74 0919 ESS,JMC @ ARPT
I simply don'think production runs of PARRY have payoff for us. Let them move it.
␈ CC: les
∂12-DEC-74 0053 ESS,JMC
What does a single * mean in FOL?
␈ CC: RWW
∂11-DEC-74 2200 ESS,JMC
Please bring your project to the Lab as soon as possible tonight.
␈ CC: PLW
∂11-DEC-74 0107 ESS,JMC AT TTY15 0107
Since I will be away from Thursday afternoon through Monday, I will have
to turn in grades by about Thursday noon. Yes, I would like to see them,
but I would also like your recommended grades. Sufficiently good late
projects may get a change of grade and some pleas for incomplete may
be accepted.
␈ CC: nxl
∂11-DEC-74 0104 ESS,JMC AT TTY15 0104
How are we doing on term projects?
␈ CC: nxl
∂11-DEC-74 0100 ESS,JMC
How are we doing on term projects?
␈ CC: nxl
∂11-DEC-74 0035 ESS,JMC
The TYPENUπ bug came back.
␈ CC: RWW
∂10-DEC-74 1812 ESS,JMC
1. Fine about Berlekamp.
2. Associated with the cut in university funds for computing should be
a change in accounting so that the rates on the 360/67 could be reduced,
and the funds would go farther. Have the deans got to use the money
saved, which nominally comes from the provost, for other purposes, e.g.
faculty salaries? Otherwise, I would imagine that it would be the Provost
who would legislate the cut. (If legislate is the word for an executive
action.)
3. Naively speaking, a 30% cut in 300 employees would leave 210. However,
if only 100 of the employees are in the group being cut, because the
others are basic support staff or SLAC and you didn't mean them did you,
then a 30% cut leaves 270.
␈ CC: fxb
∂10-DEC-74 1803 ESS,JMC
To Hilda:
Lick has agreed that I could ask you to arrange an appointment
for me to talk to Kent Kresa on Monday afternoon about military
applications of computer vision. I can get there by 1pm and need to
make the 5:45pm plane from Dulles to get home. If bending these
constraints will make the meeting possible, I will do it. Please reply
to JMC@SU-AI.
John McCarthy
Director,Stanford Artificial Intelligence Lab.
p.s. He would like Kahn or Carlstrom there too.
␈ CC: HILDA%ISI;LICKLIDER%ISI
∂10-DEC-74 1258 ESS,JMC
I would like your statements now to put together.
␈ CC: @LEADER.LST[LET,JMC]:jmc,les,bgb,pdq,tob,tw,ccg,reg,dcl,rww
∂09-DEC-74 2225 ESS,JMC AT TTY72 2225
ok
␈ CC: sgk
∂09-DEC-74 2220 ESS,JMC
There is some kind of bug in <control>?. It asked me whether it should
replace E.ALS. After trying N a few times, getting nothing worthwhile,
I started over, and when it asked the question again, I said Y, at which
point it genuinely replaced E.ALS[UP,DOC] by my empty file. I got Ralph
to resuscitate it, however.
␈ CC: ALS
∂09-DEC-74 1454 ESS,JMC
The latest is responsive enough. However, it may be too responsive in that
it might take an army to carry it out in time. Nevertheless it will do,
I guess.
␈ CC: tw
∂09-DEC-74 1430 ESS,JMC
Your draft is not responsive to the considerations in Lick's message.
Specifically, it does not undertake to accomplish anything in particular
in any period of time. Please reread than section of his message, which,
in case you have mislaid it, is lick.pre[cur,jmc].
␈ CC: TW
∂09-DEC-74 0316 ESS,JMC
Dear Lick,
If you won't be too tired or too tired of us, some of us from
the Lab and especially the M.I.T. contingent know a good Chinese restaurant.
John
␈ CC: licklider%ISI
∂09-DEC-74 0036 ESS,JMC
I haven't finished planning, but I would like you to be there for
at least part of it, but I would like the notes also.
␈ CC: pdq
∂08-DEC-74 1953 ESS,JMC
Please order the following book for me:
"THE MOSCOW GOURMET," WHICH IS AVAILABLE FROM
ARDIS INC., 2901 HEATHERWAY, ANN ARBOR, MICH., 48104 FOR
$3.95.
***************
␈ CC: paw
∂08-DEC-74 1913 ESS,JMC
I need a one page summary from each of you no later than Monday afternoon
that will help me brief Licklider on project plans.
␈ CC: @LEADER.LST[LET,JMC]:jmc,les,bgb,pdq,tob,tw,ccg,reg,dcl,rww
∂08-DEC-74 1905 ESS,JMC
The following bugs still exist:
1. It still misprints formulas with existential quantifiers.
2. When the line numbers get above 9 they print as characters, e.g.
10 prints as :, 11 prints as ;, etc.
3. After making a step, it often breaks complaining as follows
(DSK: (BK . TMP))
CAN'T FIND FILE - INPUT
LAST INPUT: <whatever the last input was>.
However, I did succeed in getting through the proof. It took 24 steps
without unify, 14 steps for my original proof using UNIFY to convert ¬∀ into
∃¬, and 9 steps for a proof by contradiction also using UNIFY to move ¬ through
two quantifiers.
␈ CC: RWW
∂07-DEC-74 1649 ESS,JMC
The memory proposal seems ok to me. I suppose that we should tell D.E.C.
that there is little prospect that the order can be placed by the end of
year, however, given the number of bureaucratic layers the thing has to go
through.
␈ CC: les
∂06-DEC-74 1912 ESS,JMC
Don Farrow called and wants you to call him Monday. He says he has
straightened out the misunderstanding with Harvey Weiss and what we
proposed is agreed to. We can buy the memory now for $130K d will
get the KL-10 in exchange for the PDP-6 later. They would like to get
the order for the memory with in 1974 if possible.
␈ CC: LES
∂06-DEC-74 1507 ESS,JMC
No need to phone. All set for Tuesday. I got a message to call you,
but it turned out to be Ed not being sure that I had got your previous message.
␈ CC: licklider%ISI
∂06-DEC-74 1405 ESS,JMC
I expect to be present at the dinner on the 16th.
␈ CC: coles%SRI-AI
∂05-DEC-74 2327 ESS,JMC
The chance of a three quarter sequence in computer graphics is zilch. If you
put all that stuff, omitting some of the gadgetry, in one quarter, it
might have a chance. However, it would be better to get some vison in too.
I would suggest you consider starting with the modeling, but I have no
detailed idea.
␈ CC: bgb
∂05-DEC-74 2151 ESS,JMC
lick.pre[cur,jmc] contains a message from Licklider about his visit Tuesday.
I would like each of you to think about it and what you propose to do to
meet Lick's requirements and then talk to me about it. We may also meet
Monday to talk about it. Contemplate including overhead projector slides
but not students in a presentation of 15 to 20 minutes.
␈ CC: @LEADER.LST:jmc,les,bgb,pdq,tob,tw,ccg,reg,dcl,rww
∂05-DEC-74 1649 ESS,JMC
newey thesis by monday am
␈ CC: jmc
∂05-DEC-74 1550 ESS,JMC AT TTY72 1550
no, and i have a meeting now, so no time for more talk.
␈ CC: sgk
∂05-DEC-74 1549 ESS,JMC AT TTY72 1549
ok, if you can't get transport from airport otherwise, send message.
␈ CC: sgk
∂05-DEC-74 1545 ESS,JMC AT TTY72 1545
yes
␈ CC: sgk
∂05-DEC-74 1536 ESS,JMC AT TTY72 1536
what is your current plan?
␈ CC: sgk
∂05-DEC-74 0332 ESS,JMC
I have answered Lick's message.
␈ CC: ccg;green%ISI
∂05-DEC-74 0331 ESS,JMC
1:30 to 5:00pm on Tuesday will be fine.
␈ CC: licklider%ISI
∂05-DEC-74 0314 ESS,JMC
I fixed news75, having forgotten I need it this morning.
␈ CC: paw
∂04-DEC-74 2107 ESS,JMC AT TTY72 2107
ok
␈ CC: elf
∂04-DEC-74 1659 ESS,JMC
The idea an time are fine with me.
␈ CC: mg
∂04-DEC-74 0140 ESS,JMC
Dear Lick,
Ralph Gorin, our chief systems programmer, was talking with
Alan Kotok urging that D.E.C. make a 48 bit machine now that the
KL-10 was mostly developed, and Kotok told him that you were urging
the same. I hope you will persist in this and that they will really
do it. Such a machine could live into the coming era of big memories
that will obsolete almost everything else, and everything I have
heard tells me that IBM is moving into a monumental blind alley.
John
␈ CC: licklider%ISI
∂03-DEC-74 1818 ESS,JMC
It seems to me that we should make one more change in the ns command
format. Namely, now that commands must be followed by space we can
take keyword expressions without spaces. In fact we could even have
multi-letter commands if they take an argument separated by spaces
and if we outlaw spaces within keyword expressions. I think the format
has made great progress already - one level is a big success. Let's
get together and go over all the formats.
␈ CC: ME
∂03-DEC-74 1533 ESS,JMC
Please work out a course description for a course in vision and graphics,
if one or both of you would like to teach it this winter or spring. Apparently
winter may be better from Floyd's point of view. Try to get a draft this
week.
␈ CC: bgb;pdq
∂03-DEC-74 0332 ESS,JMC
NEWS PROPOSAL,DENTIST
␈ CC: JMC
∂02-DEC-74 2310 ESS,JMC AT TTY72 2310
The usual number, which is about 2/3.
␈ CC: mjc
∂02-DEC-74 2309 ESS,JMC AT TTY72 2309
How about tomorrow? It will be a bad lecture anyway.
␈ CC: mjc